MINUTES OF 

POLK COUNTY CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION

FEBRUARY 5, 2002

 

Chairman Dan Costello, called the meeting of the Polk County Charter Review Commission to order at 6:00 p.m. on the 3rd floor conference room of the Citrus & Chemical Bank, Bartow. Commissioner Strang led the prayer and Commissioner Gernert led the Pledge of Allegiance.

Ms. Swearengin called the roll.  All commissioners were present with the exception of Commissioner Dukes; Commissioner Masters; and Commissioner Nunnallee who gave advance notification of their absences in accordance with the Commission’s Rules. 

The Chairman said he would like the record to show the Commission had a quorum.

The Chairman said the first order of business was the approval of the minutes of January 29, 2002.  He said the Commission had some pages in their packages, pages seven, twenty-three, twenty-four, twenty-five, and twenty-six, which contained more or less minor changes to the minutes, as compared with those same pages that were sent to them in the mail. 

The Chairman pointed out that when one had only a week between meetings it was a struggle to get the minutes out, because the Commission’s minutes ran thirty-five pages.  He said he would like to compliment Ms. Swearengin on the work that she did in that regard, and that it was very difficult, but she did it in a very fine fashion. 

Commissioner Strang said he parroted what the Chairman said commending Ms. Swearengin, and he said he would have to confess because of the short turn-around he had not had time to read all of the minutes.  He asked if those minutes could be approved subject to later perusal?

The Chairman said without objection those minutes would be approved at the Commission’s next meeting, and meanwhile those corrections would be made so that they had a complete set of minutes. 

The Chairman said they were down to Reports.  They had a public hearing on February 19, 2002, in Winter Haven City Hall.  He asked if everyone knew how to get to the Winter Haven City Hall?  He said he would get a map to each of the commissioners.  The Chairman indicated the City Hall was not on the main road, but it was fairly easy to find. 

The Chairman said the next meeting that the Commission had, which was the following Tuesday, February 12, 2002, would be the last chance that they would have to make any changes before they had their public hearings.    He said that didn’t mean that they couldn’t make changes after the public hearings, but they would want to make sure the language was set by the next week. 

He said if they had any other issues that they wanted to bring up they needed to do it preferably that evening, or not later than the next Tuesday.  He reminded them to remember that those issues needed to be placed on the Discussion Agenda if they were not already there, and then they needed to receive a two-thirds vote to go to public hearing.

He said on that evening, he hoped they would complete the government and efficiency issue that they had before them in their agenda, and that would be the final issue subject to any others that they might decide to bring up. 

He said one other issue that they needed to discuss, and it didn’t necessarily have to be done that evening, but he wanted to give them a head’s up because he was talking to Mr. Spitzer about it.  Since they were a Charter Review Commission they were not subject to the one subject rule that the citizen would be if the citizen were making a petition to change the Charter, and so they had a choice in the way that it could appear before the voters.  He said the choice would be to have each individual revision or change as a separate item for the voters to vote on or to aggregate all of the changes into one item, and they would need to make a decision on that, so that they could advise the Commission’s attorney, so that he could take steps to make the necessary changes, and depending on their preference they would either have them aggregated as one choice, or separated as several choices, or a couple combined together.  He said they could take that issue up again at the next meeting. 

He said that finished his report, and he asked Mr. Spitzer and Mr. Watts if they had anything to report to the Commission?

Mr. Spitzer and Mr. Watts had no report.

The Chairman said the Commission was down to the Issues Agenda.  He said he talked to Jim Nelson of the School Board, and he graciously asked Brenda Reddout, School Board Member to appear before the Commission, and to explain the vote at the School Board Meeting, which was seven – zero, not to bring forth the appointed superintendent issue at that time, and Ms. Reddout was there to explain the vote, and to respond to any questions that the Commission might have. 

The Chairman invited Ms. Reddout to speak. 

Ms. Brenda Reddout, School Board Member, Polk County Schools

Ms. Reddout said that the Board had just voted on the previous week, and the discussion came down to one or two members who were not for an appointed superintendent.  She said the overriding concern that was expressed at the Board’s meeting was the concern regarding timing.  She said they had asked at the board meeting prior for the School Board Attorney to prepare for them a history of the initiative in Polk County, and in looking at the votes as they came out, it was clear that in the primaries and in the regular general election the initiative was subject to an overwhelming defeat.  She said off-year elections seemed to do much better if the issue stood alone.  She said that was the overriding issue, and the secondary issue was Andrea Whiteley had gotten information from the Florida School Board’s Association that outlined strategies for getting the initiative for an appointed superintendent passed, and the School Board wanted more time to study that.  She said the timing was a big concern, and the majority of the Board was for an appointed superintendent.  She said they probably said it more tactfully than she did, but they were for an appointed superintendent. 

She said there were a number of PACs (Political Action Committees) that had been formed, and were also looking at the issue, and were trying a number of different tacks in order to bring an appointed superintendent to Polk County. 

The Chairman asked if the Commission had questions for Ms. Reddout?

Commissioner Price thanked Ms. Reddout for coming to the Commission’s meeting.  She said she had a couple of questions since she had not been watching the School Board Meetings on television or cable, and she hoped that she would fill her in.  She said her first question was, had there been any public input at the School Board Meetings for the change, and also had there been any internal focus from the School Board or from the school members themselves, teachers, principals, etc.?  She asked if she was hearing any changing of the winds and perhaps a little more swaying than the last public vote might recall, because in her view she felt they were seeing a little more importance placed on having that appointed versus elected.  She said it had been pretty one-sided from her perspective, and she was wondering if Ms. Reddout, as a School Board Member, was seeing some of those same things from all of the sources that they had? 

Ms. Reddout said that she would like to answer the first two questions directly, and they were no, and no.  She said they had absolutely no public input at the meeting, and their process was similar she assumed to that Commission’s process, and if one saw an item on their agenda they could speak to it, and it was an item, which was on the agenda, at their last meeting, and no one spoke to it. 

She said they had not had any real discussion even at Work Session over how they felt.  She said the issue as it came to them was brought up at the board meeting prior, and the School Board attorney was asked to prepare a resolution, and the following meeting they voted on it, and except for some brief comments, and she said she thought each board member made some comments, there was never any full discussion of what would be the advantages and the disadvantages, and they had not had that discussion. 

She said she felt that answered the no, and no questions, and as an aside, as someone who like her colleagues, was out in the schools, and tried to be out in the community, she said she also sensed that there was a growing feeling that an appointed superintendent was needed in Polk County.  She said there were still obviously, pockets of people who wanted to have their vote, but just by the number of PACs, some that they already knew had been established, and some that people had come to them and asked for permission to establish PACs to work on the issue.  She said it did seem to be gathering some steam.

Commissioner Price thanked Ms. Reddout for her comments. 

The Chairman told Ms. Reddout the Charter Review Commission had quite a bit of input.  He said they had input from chambers, the Polk Voter’s League, the NAACP, and from many different groups and as a matter of fact, the only recollection he had was of Mr. Smith’s group and the Superintendent himself were opposed to an appointed superintendent.  He said he could not recall any other opposition to an appointed superintendent that came before that Commission, although not all commissioners were for an appointed superintendent, and he thought there were two that were not for it.  He said that Commission’s position was if they wanted to use the Charter Review Commission as a vehicle they were entitled to do it, and the Commission’s attorney, Allen Watts, was of the opinion that if the School Board requested it, that it would be legitimate for them to go ahead and put it before the voters, but he understood that there was some sentiment to having it as a separate issue. 

Ms. Reddout answered she believed the Board appreciated the opportunity.  She said in her own personal opinion, and not from the School Board, she believed if the School Board as a board, did not look to settle the issue and put it out to ballot by November, and at least vote on a resolution and set a time certain for the vote, she was concerned the School Board may not have a vote on that issue for many years to come.  She said clearly then, the majority of the School Board felt very strongly about the appointed superintendent, and with a November election there was no guarantee that would stay in place, and that was a real concern that she had. 

The Chairman asked if it required a super majority of the School Board to put it before the voters?

Ms. Reddout said no, she thought it only required a simple majority. 

The Chairman asked if there were any further questions?

Commissioner McLaughlin thanked Ms. Reddout for coming to the Commission’s meeting, and he asked if it would be fair to say that Commission’s current agenda resolutions regarding the increase in salary for the county commissioners, and perhaps even the expansion of the county commission were somewhat controversial, and the School Board did not want to have their issue on the ballot because it might get lumped in with something of that nature? 

Ms. Reddout said there was some mention made of that at the prior School Board Meeting.  She said there was concern not only with the timing, but at the prior week’s board meeting there was also a concern about confusion, and she said people talked about how sometimes one could get a whole bunch of angry people coming out, and they might be angry on one issue that had absolutely nothing to with their issue, and their issue got defeated as well. 

The Chairman asked if there were any further questions? There were no further questions. 

The Chairman told Ms. Reddout that the Commission didn’t think anybody was angry with anyone of them, because they were doing the people’s work, and besides they didn’t get paid, and they were not elected. 

Ms. Reddout responded, of course not, they were angels. 

Commissioner Strang said and the people get what they pay for.

The Chairman thanked Ms. Reddout for her comments. 

The Chairman said the Commission was down to Item “B”, Report of Committee on Government and Efficiency Issue, and he reminded the Commission that Commissioner McLaughlin, Commissioner Nunnallee, and Commissioner Strang were on that committee.  He thanked those commissioners for their work, and he asked Commissioner McLaughlin to make his report.

Commissioner McLaughlin, Committee on Government and Efficiency Issue 

Commissioner McLaughlin said everyone had a folder which Ms Swearengin had passed out, and within that was an outline that Kurt Spitzer and Dan Costello did a great job initially helping them set-up the frame work, and then they basically went over the outline and added and cut and pasted, and came up with what they saw before them. 

He said he thought without objection, the best thing would be to explain everything as it read.  He said the one issue that came up was whether or not it should be a committee or a commission, and it was the committee’s feeling that it should be a commission because it would give it a little more weight in terms of the actual name of the organization, and he said it was felt that the term “committee” might not have the will behind it, and that was one consensus they came to. 

He said in terms of the Mission everyone could read for themselves what the Mission would be, but basically the idea was that they didn’t want to limit that just to the Board of County Commissioners, and if there was a problem with SWFMD interacting with the Polk County Board of County Commissioners, or something like that, they wanted that commission to be able to investigate that.  He said there was some very broad language, which included agencies, divisions, offices, and departments of any governmental unit, etc., etc.

He said they then discussed that they should issue an Interim Report after one year, and then a Final Report prior to the end of its term, and then later under Operation in Section VI, they would see that after they issued the Final Report, they would then like the County Manager to within twelve months respond to that report, and issue basically a status report of how the recommendations had been implemented, and that was under Operation. 

He said in Section III, which was Membership Qualifications.  There was a fair amount of discussion regarding how many members there should be, and also how the appointment process should take place, and they basically came to the conclusion that it was their recommendation that there be at least seventeen, but not more than twenty-five, which was a consensus of the group.  He said they also thought they should be registered voters and that they should not be elected officials or employees of Polk County Government.

He said in terms of the appointment process there was discussion of whether or not the group should be appointed by individuals or by a nominating committee consisting of appointed people, and or governmental officials, and the idea behind that was that the Nominating Committee would do a better job of basically following the will of the Commission, and would do a better job balancing issues regarding geography, gender, ethnicity, and issues like that, because they were able to look at the whole group. For instance, if one county commissioner received an appointment and the other county commissioner received an appointment, it was very difficult to collaborate on all of that, particularly if they were not in the “sunshine”, and so they felt that the appointment process would be better handled by a committee composed of a: the Chairman of the County Commission; a constitutional officer named by the five constitutional officers; the Chairman of the School Board; two elected city officials named by the Polk County League of Cities; two members named by the Polk County Association of Chambers of Commerce; and a member named by the League of Women Voters of Polk County. 

He said that was to make sure that the unincorporated areas as well as the incorporated areas were well represented, and to make sure that the group would follow the guidelines under Section 6.3 of the Polk County Charter. Commissioner McLaughlin asked if he could read that section to the Commission because it basically encompassed a fair amount of issues that they had discussed.  He said in Section 6.3 of the Charter it would be their hope that when the Nominating Committee met they would be charged with that section, and he read Section 6.3 to the Commission.  He said it was the committee’s feeling that rather than spell out that one-third should come from a certain area or other specific requirements that it would be best left to the Charter Review Commission to read Section 6.3, and basically be charged with trying to follow 6.3 as well as the committee objectives, by finding competent and qualified people to be able to evaluate the governmental efficiency. 

He said the one issue that the committee was not able to come to consensus on was the budget. There was a feeling from one of the group members who said that that the group was going to be studying efficiency, and he didn’t think the committee needed to concern themselves with the fear that the group were going to go out and spend “willy-nilly.” He said he thought that was something that he shouldn’t paraphrase, because Commissioner Strang’s words were much better than his, but basically he thought that Commissioner Strang thought that they didn’t need to set a specific cap.  He said he and Commissioner Nunnallee were a little uncomfortable not setting any specific caps.  He said they really couldn’t find a consensus on that issue, so they left it for the Charter Review Commission to decide. 

He read VI the terms of Operation to the Commission.  He said Mr. Spitzer had made some other notations regarding the term and duration as well as the name issue, which was basically Efficiency Commission or Management and Efficiency Commission, as opposed to what the committee currently had.  He said those suggestions came late in the day, and the committee was not able to discuss his suggestions, so they would also leave those to the Commission’s opinion.  Mr. Spitzer also said that the commission shall be advisory only, and they agreed with that, but they didn’t necessarily want specific language referencing that because the committee felt it disempowered the group. 

Commissioner McLaughlin said that concluded the committee’s report, and he asked if he had left anything out for the other commissioners on the committee to speak up. 

The Chairman asked Commissioner Strang if he had any comments?

Commissioner Strang answered no.  Well done, it was a good report.

The Chairman thanked Commissioner McLaughlin for his report. 

The Chairman said he thought what was in order was for the commissioners to ask questions of the committee, and then they could go down those items and see if they could get a consensus on them, and then deal with the issue of the budget. 

The Chairman asked if there were any questions of the committee for the commissioners?

Commissioner Lindsey asked Commissioner McLaughlin what compelled the other units of government to cooperate?

Commissioner McLaughlin said he didn’t know if under the Charter they could compel a division of the state, for instance, to cooperate with them, and that issue was discussed some, but other than just being good government, he felt he might have to defer to Attorney Watts in terms of the legal issues as to what they could do to compel other governmental entities to cooperate with them.  He said he knew they could compel the Board of County Commissioners to cooperate but he wasn’t sure to what extent they could say to the School Board that they had to cooperate with them, or something of that nature. 

Commissioner Strang said to answer Commissioner Lindsey’s question, he didn’t think the committee they were referring to had the power of compulsion to compel anybody to do anything.  He said all that committee was going to do was to issue a report.  He said he didn’t know if the language stayed in there, but the discussion was that the committee would be advisory only, and would not have any executive powers. He said he thought the benefit of a committee like that lay in its ability to jawbone, to bring a issue up before the public, and he thought they would find that if they made their case well enough that the politicians would get in line. 

The Chairman said he would like to respond to Commissioner Lindsey’s question.  He said if the voters approved the amendment, and that was what the voters wanted for their government, and if that was not a compelling reason, then he said he certainly didn’t know what was.

Commissioner Lindsey said the example given was SWFMD. 

The Chairman said he thought in that case, it was going to be a moral persuasion as opposed to any other kind, because actually the county didn’t have jurisdiction over SWFMD.  He said it seemed to him that if that was the people’s document, and that was the Charter, and if there was an issue concerning SWFMD, and that Commission had spoken, and SWFMD was not responding in any way whatsoever, it seemed to him that was an issue for the Chairman of SWFMD to be concerned about, because they were supposed to be responsive to the people as well. 

Commissioner Strang told Commissioner Lindsey that he thought they had discussed that, and he thought that it was conceivable that there might even be an issue affecting the Army Corps of Engineers, but with a group like that, issuing a report critical of them or suggesting that they change their ways, he thought there were even ways to get to the Corps of Engineers to cooperate.

Commissioner Price said she had a couple of questions.  The first being, under Item IV under Appointments, and she asked when they referred to the Polk County League of Cities, were they referring to the Ridge League of Cities?  

The Chairman answered yes, and he said that language might need to be modified somewhat because he thought the Ridge League of Cities did include Plant City. 

Commissioner Price responded yes it did. 

The Chairman said he would have to look into the organization and find out. 

Commissioner Price said she was familiar with the organization, and she was an associate member, and her concern was if they listed the organization, not all of the members were from Polk County, and it become a little more political in nature as to who their appointment becomes. 

The Chairman said that was an issue that they needed to resolve before February 12th. 

Commissioner Strang said that the members did have to be citizens of Polk County, or voters of Polk County. 

Chairman Costello said no they didn’t because Plant City was a member of the Ridge League.

Commissioner Price said of the Ridge League not all of those were, but she understood that he was saying that the by-laws so to speak required them to be a member. 

The Chairman said yes, they had to be a resident of Polk County. 

Commissioner Price said that her point would be, which was really her second question, in an effort to have inclusion in some of the smaller areas what was the responsibility in those groups to include them?

The Chairman asked Commissioner McLaughlin if he could respond to that question?

Commissioner McLaughlin answered sure. 

The Chairman said that came up at the committee, with which he was attending as an ex-officio member.  He said Commissioner Nunnallee was on the committee for the very reason that she expressed that concern, and they initially had in there not less than one-half would be evenly distributed among the county commission districts and everything else like that, but then when the committee began looking at 6.3 very carefully, 6.3 had a requirement for geographical diversity, and he said the committee members could speak for themselves, but he thought they felt that would take care of it, as opposed to having some sort of formula. 

Commissioner McLaughlin said the other issue was if one highlighted just on the geography, were they then not emphasizing other issues such as gender diversity, or ethnic diversity, that were just as important, so the concern of the committee, at least what he was expressing was if they said follow 6.3, but make sure that half were from unincorporated areas, then they might be doing their self a disservice when it came to the overall mix of the group. 

Commissioner Price said she would also like to ask one other question regarding the Polk County Association of Chambers Commerce, and she knew they had a commissioner who was fairly familiar with that, and she asked how did they see that group coming together with a nomination, and she asked if all of the chambers participated, and if they all were active, and would there be a good response from all chambers?

The Chairman asked Commissioner Gernert to respond.

Commissioner Gernert said the correct name for the group was the Polk Association of Chamber Executives, and it was changed about eighteen months ago.  He said they met every other month, and as with any group, there was an ebb and flow of how many were there, but all of the organized chambers in the county were invited to participate.  He said there were some groups, and Eagle Lake came to mind, because they didn’t have a full-time administrative person in that organization.  He said he thought Polk City at that point in time did not, and there would be some cities that were not represented, and that was because they didn’t have formal Chambers of Commerce. 

Commissioner McLaughlin said the one point that he would like to make was that the Commission remember that was also a nominating committee, and they were getting to appoint two members to the Nominating Committee, which then nominated other people, so for some of the smaller communities there was ample opportunity for them to come and voice their opinion saying they wanted to have a member on that group, etc. etc. 

Commissioner Gernert said one thing that he would like to add was that, the first Efficiency Committee that Commissioner Strang was a part of was appointed by the Chambers,  and he thought they would take that charge very seriously.  He said he didn’t think there would be any problem getting them together to consider nominees.

Commissioner Price said she would agree, but she said her question was really about representation of all of the Chambers, and that was where her focus was, and she said she was sorry if she didn’t ask that question right.  She said she wanted to make sure they had good representation from all of the county’s Chambers in that particular organization. 

Commissioner Strang said he thought they needed to be mindful of the fact that Efficiency Commission was not going to be formed to divide up the spoils of war.  They were going to be a working group, and their job was to provide for the general welfare of everybody, and he didn’t think parochial interests were going to intrude very deeply into their work, and those people were going to be after efficiencies and changes that would affect everybody equally. 

The Chairman said he would suggest on IV they change the language where it said “two elected city officials” to “two elected Polk County city officials” named by the Ridge League of Cities, and then two members named by the Polk Association of Chamber Executives. 

The Chairman asked Commissioner Price if that would take care of it from her standpoint?

Commissioner Price answered yes. 

Commissioner Lindsey asked what the deliberation was regarding the League of Women Voters versus the NAACP or the Polk Voters League, or the Libertarian Party, or the All Roads Committee, or the Sierra Club, or the Republican Party, or any other?

Commissioner Strang said the Libertarians were voted out two to one. 

Commissioner Lindsey said well at least they were considered. 

Commissioner McLaughlin said in response to Commissioner Lindsey’s question, that was why the sub-committee felt it was important to actually have a Nominating Committee as opposed to an organization, which would actually nominate their particular person, because they literally were going to get on a slippery slope where if they included one, and didn’t include another they would get a whole laundry list of organizations who would all want to have input, and their particular person on it, and what they thought was best was if that nominating committee could best handle that.  He said the discussion was really made in light of should a person, or a county commissioner make appointments, or would there be a committee that basically handled the applications or nominations.  He said they didn’t get into all of the various interest groups that could have a person on that particular nominating committee. 

Commissioner Lindsey asked what the math was on all of those delegates?

The Chairman said he thought it was an even number, and he thought it was eight. 

The Chairman said the committee discussed whether it should be odd or even, and they said they were going to reach a consensus so it really didn’t matter.

Commissioner Lindsey asked Commissioner McLaughlin if there was a consensus among his committee or that body that the Charter Review Commission somehow did not represent all of the interests that needed to be represented, and somehow they were not politically correct?

Commissioner McLaughlin asked if he was referring to the Charter Review Commission?

Commissioner McLaughlin said he thought there was a discussion that took place where they were actually surprised because of the way nominations take place, and at the diversity in terms of gender and ethnicity, but they had not received the geographic distribution that he thought some people would like from them. 

Commissioner Lindsey asked if the work product to date had been compromised by that faux pas? 

Commissioner McLaughlin said they didn’t discuss that, and he hoped not. 

Commissioner Lindsey said the reason for raising the issue was they said repeatedly the voters were wise enough to make their choice, and be that as it may, once they had made their choice, they lived with those choices until the next time around, and they vested in them the responsibility to pass budgets, make decisions, make appointments, and the whole spectrum of their responsibilities, and he didn’t see why that would be any different in the modification of the system that appointed them collectively, and would work as well as it did that time, and to advocate that to the Chamber of Commerce and the League of Women Voters in the absence of other interest groups, he would rather  defer to the elected bodies that were elected by all of them. 

The Chairman said he would like to respond to that. 

The Chairman said it seemed to him that the difference was that, in a sense, it would be the people’s efficiency committee, and it belonged to the people because it was in the people’s charter. It seemed to him the Charter would not be saying we don’t trust elected officials. As a matter of fact, there were four elected officials included on the nominating committee, which was half of the total, if eight was the total.  He felt it simply said what they were going to do was to get a diverse group together that didn’t have a particular stake in any particular outcome, and there was probably a greater stake in the outcome of that group than there would be with respect to the Charter Review Commission.  It seemed to him that committee was more distant and removed from any sort of possible manipulation.

Commissioner Strang said he agreed with Chairman Costello, and he would have really kept his mouth shut, but the Chairman’s question prompted this answer.  He said to answer the Chairman’s question, he felt the Charter Review Commission was not representative, and he thought that group represented the status quo, and it represented the interests of the politicians who appointed them for the most part.  He said having said that, he thought that group was more interested in its own agenda than it was in what the demonstrated concerns of the electorate were.  He said having said that, he thought the appointing group that thing called for was probably fairer than the system, which got the Charter Review Commission  appointed. He said they were appointed by individuals, and he would dare say if a committee had appointed that group he would not have been appointed, and he thought that the fact that they were proposing that those appointments be made by a committee insured there would be greater diversity, and that the provisions of 6.3 would be carried out. 

Commissioner Moore Bailey said she was trying to look at the minutes that they talked about when they discussed that very issue at the last meeting, and of course in regards to the numbers she was counting the Chairman of the County Commission appointment comes from there, constitutional officers get to appoint one, and that was two, and two elected city officials, and that was two, and then with the School Board there would be three, and the math added up to nine.  She asked if she was adding correctly?

The Chairman said he thought it was eight, but he wasn’t sure.

Commissioner Moore Bailey, said at any rate, to expedite, what she wanted to say was that she still believed that was not the fairest way, and it was the same discussion that they had the previous week.  She said she would like to refer to Mr. Spitzer, and ask him to remind them with how Broward County came up with their committee. 

Mr. Spitzer said he didn’t know how their language was arrived at, but their language, if he recalled correctly, basically was direct appointments took a different approach.  Appointments were made directly by the County Commission and then various specifically identified interests groups in the Charter Cities Legislative Delegation, the Chamber of Commerce, Broward Workshop, and Broward League of Women Voters.  He said those were direct appointments as opposed to Polk, where it was the cities and the county and the chambers, and they appointed sort of a Nominating Committee who made the appointments to the Efficiency Commission. 

Commissioner Moore Bailey asked the Chairman if he was saying that was an even number, she would like to piggyback on something that was said by a fellow commissioner, and if they could at least include one Afro-centric group in that committee certainly that would guarantee some diversity.  She said she would say that the leading one in the county would be that of the NAACP. 

The Chairman said he didn’t quite understand Commissioner Moore Bailey’s question. 

Commissioner Moore Bailey said her question was regarding the make-up of the committee, and who would be making the nominations.  She said what she was asking was if there could be another entity added, and her suggestion would be the NAACP, and it was her feeling that organization would create true diversity, and would guarantee that there would be some diversity within the group. 

The Chairman asked if there were any other questions of the commissioners?

The Chairman said what the Commission could do was to take that issue up as they began voting on that.  He said again, he was at the committee meeting when they were considering categories of membership, and because it was a nominating committee and not the Efficiency Commission itself.  He said there was a feeling that the advice that was contained in 6.3, which he thought was an excellent gold standard for diversity, and the committee felt that whoever was going to be appointed to that nominating committee would pay close attention to that language. 

He said the Charter itself did not have a category for the NAACP or the Polk Voters League, or the League of Women Voters or any of the many different categories of organizations in the county, and it had that language in there, which was similar to the constitutional language forbidding discrimination with respect to race, religion, gender, or ethnicity, but it had that general gold standard in there, and he thought good people, and four of those people would be elected individuals, and they would be accountable to their constituents, would comply in good conscience, and it seemed to him that would take care of that.  He said if they began adding specific categories of groups he felt the group was going to be difficult to manage. 

The Chairman said he would invite any other commissioner to make a comment on that point. 

Commissioner Strang said he agreed with the Chairman, and if one got into the categorical representation of the thing, one would wind up chasing his tail, and it would be difficult to include everybody that wanted to be included. 

Commissioner Moore Bailey said at that point she still maintained that thought, but it appeared that they had to either accept that as it was because it appeared that it was not open for discussion in terms of any addition, and she said she guessed she really had nothing else to say, but her point was that she thought they should have the discussion.  She said she appreciated the opportunity to discuss and she appreciated the opportunity to consider what she had stated as well, and if it was open for discussion she thought whatever anyone said should be taken under consideration and not be knocked down. 

The Chairman said he first of all wanted to state that her conviction with regards to that issue not being open for discussion was completely and totally wrong, and he didn’t know how she got that impression.  He said they were in discussion then with respect to some proposals that were going to be voted on, and when they were voted on, amendments could be made to those proposals either individually or as a group, so discussion was open, and if he had given that impression to anyone else, and if members of the committee had given that impression to anybody else to please disabuse themselves of it.  He said it was not closed.

The Chairman asked if there was any further discussion?

Commissioner Moore Bailey said that was fine, and she didn’t have any other comments other than to say that she hoped they could all be on one accord. 

The Chairman asked where the Commission wanted to go with respect to that issue?  He reminded the Commission what they were trying to determine was whether or not there was a two-thirds vote for that item, so the consultants could draft it for the next meeting. 

The Chairman asked the Commission if they wanted to go paragraph by paragraph, and to raise their hands if they did. 

Commissioner Moore Bailey asked were the other commission members supposed to have received anything via e-mail?

The Chairman answered no they did not.  He said the members at the last meeting were invited to send e-mail comments to Cynthia Swearengin for transmission or copy to the committee members.

Commissioner Strang asked if it would upset the Commission’s schedule if they submitted that for everyone’s study that evening and voted on it at the next meeting?

The Chairman said he thought it would, because of the fact that they really needed to get that thing wrapped up, because they had to approve the draft language for all of the revisions at the next meeting, and the Commission’s attorney needed to draft that language, and he was hoping that they could get it completed. 

Commissioner Lindsey said he would like to make a motion, and then depending on the action of that motion, he would like to make a follow-up.  He made the motion the Commission approve the recommendations of the committee in paragraphs I, II, III, V, and VI, and Commissioner Moore Bailey seconded the motion. 

The Chairman reminded the Commission that paragraph IV was not included, and paragraph V still needed to have some work done on it, because the committee was unable to reach a consensus on the budgeting issue. 

Commissioner Lindsey said that was fine, and to leave out IV and V. 

The Chairman asked if it would then be I, II, III, and VI?

Commissioner Lindsey said that was correct. 

The Chairman reminded the Commission that the motion was to approve the recommendation of the committee paragraphs I, II, III, and VI, and the motion was made by Commissioner Lindsey, and seconded by Commissioner Moore Bailey. 

The Chairman asked if there was further discussion?

Commissioner Price said she had a discussion point just for her clarification under point number III.  She asked if the committee that would be appointed at a later date would have the flexibility between seventeen and twenty-five members?

The Chairman answered at least seventeen, but not more than twenty-five.

The Chairman asked if there was further discussion?

Commissioner Gernert asked, would that issue be placed on the ballot in its entirety, or how would that work?

The Chairman said it would be one article on the Charter. 

Mr. Watts said the ballot question would be something like, shall the Charter be amended by the addition of article such and such providing for the appointment of the Efficiency Commission, or what ever they ended up naming it.  He said they had seventy-five words to summarize the affect of the measure. 

The Chairman asked if there was further discussion? There was none.

The Chairman reminded the Commission the vote was being taken on the motion to approve committee recommendations on I, II, III, and VI.  He asked Ms. Swearengin to call the roll for a vote.  The results were 10/0 with the ayes prevailing.  The motion carried unanimously.  

Commissioner Gernert made a motion that the recommendations of the committee, with respect to paragraph IV be approved with the changes the Chairman suggested, and Commissioner Prince seconded the motion.

The Chairman asked if there was discussion on the motion?

Commissioner Lindsey said he would speak against the motion as it was formed then.  He said he was not offering a motion, but he was offering a point of discussion with an observation that by the time that occurred they were likely to have seven county commissioners as opposed to five, and even in or not in that likelihood he would strongly consider the League of Women Voters as a very narrow special interest group and substitute an additional county commissioner in addition to the Chairman. 

The Chairman asked if that was a motion to amend?

Commissioner Lindsey answered yes.

The Chairman reminded the Commission that the motion was to amend the main motion, which was to approve paragraph IV, by deleting the League of Women Voters and adding a second county commissioner, and Commissioner Hunt seconded the motion. 

The Chairman asked if there was further discussion?

Commissioner Strang said he was prepared to vote against that amendment because he thought they had too many elected officials on there already, particularly with the county commissioners.  He said that committee would be examining and auditing the work of the Board of the County Commissioners, and he didn’t like to see the people who were being investigated appoint their investigators. 

The Chairman said that he concurred with Commissioner Strang on that issue, and he also felt that the deletion of the League of Women Voters, which had a reputation for being dispassionate and objective when it came to governmental issues, and adding a county commissioner would be a mistake. 

The Chairman asked if there was further discussion?

Commissioner Lindsey said he did not share the Chairman’s observation, but he would suggest in light of term limits that second member, be one member who was at the end of his term, and would not have a vested interest in the results. 

The Chairman asked if there was further discussion? There was none. 

The Chairman said on the motion to delete the League of Women Voters from paragraph IV, and to add a second county commissioner, he asked Ms. Swearengin to call the roll for a vote.  The results were 8/2 with the nays prevailing.  The motion failed because it did not garner a two-thirds vote. 

The Chairman said the Commission was down to the main motion, which was the approval of the committee recommendation on IV, with the understanding that language, “two elected city officials” would be changed to “two elected Polk County City Officials”, and the Polk County League of Cities would be changed to Ridge League of Cities, and the Polk Association of the Chambers of Commerce would be changed to Polk Association of Chamber Executives. 

The Chairman asked if there was any further discussion on the main motion?   There was no further discussion. 

The Chairman asked Ms Swearengin to call the roll for a vote on the main motion.  The results were 8/2 with the ayes prevailing.  The motion carried.

The Chairman said the Commission was down to Item V, with the issue of the budget, and he thought Item VI was approved earlier, and he asked if there was discussion on that issue?

The Chairman said perhaps the committee members would want to speak to that issue before the other commission members did, and he said Commissioner McLaughlin did somewhat speak to that issue, and he said in summarizing Commissioner Strang’s comments, he didn’t want a limit placed on the budget, and he asked him if that was correct?

Commissioner Strang answered yes.

The Chairman asked Commissioner McLaughlin what sort of limit did he want? 

Commissioner McLaughlin said he didn’t throw out a number, but in his mind he said he would say not to exceed $100,000, and he said the background on that was that he didn’t feel that it was fair after the County Commission had said to them to basically give them an unfounded mandate to fund that group with the sky as the limit.  He said he was in agreement with Commissioner Strang in feeling that group would not go crazy with the money, but he felt giving the voters some indication of what it cost to fund such a group was a good idea.  He said as a final point, that was not a make or break decision, for instance, if that group decided not to speak to the budget issue he would still vote in favor of having that organization, and his preference would be to have a budget. 

The Chairman asked why didn’t they entertain a motion for either a specific budget or for the wording of paragraph V?  The Chairman read paragraph V to the Commission. 

Commissioner Allen said he felt that language said it adequately. 

The Chairman said what the Commission could do was to get a motion to that affect on the table, and see where that stood, and if that didn’t pass then they could go to some sort of a budget. 

Commissioner Allen made a motion that the language for paragraph V would read as recommended by the committee, and Commissioner Moore Bailey seconded the motion. 

The Chairman asked if there was further discussion?

Commissioner Strang said he would like to explain the reasons for his recommendation.  He said that Commission did not have a budgetary limit, and he said he noticed they hadn’t held any orgies or bought any jets or anything like that, and the predecessor Charter Commission was rather circumspect with regard to that. He said he felt they were going to be appointing some people with great probity and good reputations from throughout the county, and he thought they would be able to trust them not to waste the taxpayers’ money, and then beyond that he noticed that proposed language said that the Board of County Commissioners would provide the necessary funding for the work of the Commission.  He said he felt the word “necessary” stood out there, and they weren’t going to provide for any jets or wasteful expenditures in his opinion.  He said the third point he wanted to make was how did they know what kind of number to put on the budget?  He asked what was an appropriate budget to put for the Polk County Charter for all time to bind the people to?

The Chairman thanked Commissioner Strang for his comments. 

The Chairman asked if there was further discussion?

Commissioner Moore Bailey said she was in agreement, and she was looking at the minutes from the last week, and she thought Commissioner McLaughlin said something like $95,000 or something to that affect, but she believed as it had been stated, that they were talking about people who would be very conscious about how they were going to spend the taxpayers’ dollars, and thought that would be wise and frugal. 

The Chairman asked if there was further discussion?

Commissioner McLaughlin said perhaps they could get some comment from Attorney Watts on the word “necessary”, and he said, Commissioner Nunnallee, who was not there at that evening’s meeting, was also concerned about that issue. 

Mr. Watts said he thought the word “necessary” was a standard.  He said the word in Article 9 with respect to school funding was “adequate”.   He said the Supreme Court had debated whether or not it could enforce the word “adequate”, and thus far had not, but they had stated there was a limit beyond which they would not tolerate a deviation from the ordinary meaning of the word “adequate”.  He said he thought the same thing applied to the word “necessary”.  He said he thought it was a standard that could be adhered to. 

The Chairman asked if there was further discussion?  There was none.

The Chairman said on the motion to approve V as recommended by the committee with no budget, he asked Ms. Swearengin to call the roll for a vote.  The results were 9/1 with ayes prevailing.  The motion carried. 

The Chairman said that completed the recommendations of the committee, and he thanked the committee for their work. 

Commissioner McLaughlin said he knew that the Commission had already approved Article I, but he would like to bring to the attention of the Commission the issue of the name of that group.  He said he felt the Commission needed to address that issue because Mr. Spitzer’s text was in Article II, and the Chairman’s text was in Article I, and they actually had a typo there because in Article II they were calling it the Efficiency Commission, and then in Article I they were not.  He said he thought they needed to decide the name of that group. 

Commissioner Gernert said he would make a motion that the name of the group be the “Polk County Efficiency Commission”. 

The Chairman said the motion had been made that group be called the “Polk County Efficiency Commission”, and Commissioner McLaughlin seconded the motion.  The Chairman asked if there was further discussion?

Commissioner Strang asked if they could vote by acclamation to save time?

The Chairman said he thought the Commission had made a practice of doing a roll call, and he thought it was best that they continue that practice.

The Chairman asked if there was further discussion on that issue?  There was no further discussion.

The Chairman asked Ms. Swearengin to call the roll for a vote.  The results were 10/0 with ayes prevailing.  The motion carried unanimously. 

The Chairman said he would like to skip down to the Summary of Changes to the Charter, and he told Commissioner Gernert that he felt that would be an appropriate time to bring up the issue he had. 

Commissioner Gernert said at the risk of being run out of town on a rail, he was not present at the meeting where the Commission discussed County Commissioners’ salaries and made a decision to submit to the voters the salary of $49,500, and he asked them to forgive him for not being privy to all of their discussions that evening, but he would like to move that to the Discussion Agenda because he had a perspective on that, and wanted to discuss it with them. 

Commissioner Gernert made a motion to move the salary issue to the Discussion Agenda, and Commissioner McLaughlin seconded the motion.  The Chairman asked if there was further discussion on the motion?  There was none.

The Chairman asked Ms. Swearengin to call the roll for a vote.  The results were 10/0 with the ayes prevailing.  The motion carried unanimously. 

The Chairman said that issue was then on the Discussion Agenda. 

Commissioner Gernert thanked the Commission for allowing him to address that issue. He said as he stated earlier, he had not been privy of each of their discussions of that evening, at least not in detail, at that point in time, but his concern was on the issue of county commissioners’ salaries, and basically he saw it as having two options, either leave it where it was based on the vote last time on the ballot, or consider it an issue of equity or fairness, and it seemed to him that to move the salary to $49,500 was just as arbitrary as cutting it in half from whatever the state mandated for other counties, and he thought at the meeting that he had come back to Mr. Spitzer had prepared a report on the salaries that commissioners received in other charter counties, which to him, gave them a benchmark that they could affix or gage their salaries against, and that would be the average of those salaries paid in other charter counties.  He said his point was, if they were to be a progressive county, and if they were to operate in an atmosphere where they were considered to be fair an equitable employers that they should look at the issue of equity and tie those county commissioners salaries to what was the average in those other counties, and that was what he wanted to bring to their discussion that evening. 

The Chairman asked if there was further discussion?

Commissioner Strang said he voted yes to bring that issue back up for discussion because he wanted to reiterate what he hoped he had said earlier, in that he felt like the very fact that that was on the discussion agenda to raise county commissioners salaries right after the voters had spoken loud and clear, to him sent an even louder message, and that was that Commission didn’t care what the voters thought particularly when one considered the Commission completely ignored petitions submitted to them by over 2,700 voters.  He said he thought in the referenda they proposed to the voters, if the salary issue was included then it would color and militate the defeat of all of the others, because he thought the voters would question the integrity of that Commission. 

The Chairman asked if there were further comments?

Commissioner McLaughlin said he would disagree with Commissioner Strang’s statement regarding that issue, because he thought the Commission put a lot of consideration in why they came to that number, and he said he knew Commissioner Gernert wasn’t there, but there was a fair amount of discussion when they began talking about term limits, and they hadn’t had any evidence come before them to suggest that the voters out there wouldn’t like another option on terms, and they knew that if they put it on the ballot they were going to vote it down, so whether one was personally in favor of term limits or not with regard to the County Commission that would not make much difference.  He said he thought that Commission, and he was speaking for himself, but also having been there, he thought that Commission needed to give the voters Option “B”, and they only had Option “A”, which was to cut the salaries in half, and he said he agreed with Commissioner Gernert that it was an arbitrary number, but for instance, if the voters had cut them in half, cut them in one-third, or cut them down to nothing who was to say cut them in half would actually be the end result, and he thought the Commission decided that they had enough evidence come before them from all of the Chambers of Commerce who had spoken to them, and from all of the citizen groups who had spoken to them, and from editorials in the Ledger, that they felt that the current salary was not sufficient, but that it did need to be raised up to a level where someone could work on a full-time basis, and educate children in college.  He said he would not favor going back to what was previously had, because he thought it would be an exercise in futility that was not going to pass, but what they were trying to do was to give the voters another option. 

Commissioner Moore Bailey said she would echo those sentiments exactly.  She said she would not like to undo what they had already done, and that was her only comment. 

The Chairman told Commissioner Gernert he was present at that meeting, and his rational for approving the $49,500 was not that he felt that was the ideal solution, but he felt that was the solution that might be tolerable for the voters. He said the current county commissioners were being paid approximately the same amount as the School Board, and he said having been in that position for four years, and he said of course, he hadn’t been a School Board Member, and maybe it was a little unfair for him to say, but he didn’t think so.  He said he thought the responsibility that a county commissioner had was a lot more significant than the School Board Members, and he thought they should be paid more than the School Board Members, and that was roughly $14,000 more than the School Board Members were being paid.  He said it was probably about double of what the Lakeland City Commissioners were paid.  He asked if their salaries were up around $23,000 then?  He said he thought Commissioner McLaughlin came up with the $49,500 because it was just under $50,000, so it was what was really going to be saleable to the voters.  He said, he thought that salary had to be increased, but he felt if it were increased too much it would be rejected by the voters. 

The Chairman asked if there was any further comment or discussion?

Commissioner Strang asked under the Charter if it was not true that the County Commission could call for a referendum on that matter? 

The Chairman said they had the right to with a supermajority vote to put a matter before the voters. 

Commissioner Strang asked if he was aware of any effort that had been made to do that on their part?

The Chairman said, no, he was unaware of any. 

Commissioner Gernert asked Mr. Spitzer if he recalled what the average of those salaries were?

Mr. Spitzer said, no, he didn’t, but to take his ideal literally there were some charter counties, that in their charters they did not follow the state schedule, and in Dade County, which was the largest county, they were paid $6,000 per year, and Volusia County, which was about the size of Polk, tagged their salaries to those of the School Board, but others Broward, Pinellas, and Hillsborough all followed a state salary schedule, and it was a population driven schedule, and so they would be somewhat higher. 

The Chairman said he would like to interrupt Mr. Spitzer.  He said he happened to have the average, and it was $58,593, and that was the average of the charter county, county commissioners’ salaries. 

Commissioner Gernert thanked the Chairman for allowing him to bring that issue to the Commission, and he said he certainly appreciated all of their positions on that. 

The Chairman asked if there were any other issues to be brought up or revisited?

The Chairman said they were down to Summary of Changes to the Charter.  He said he had gone through his copy of the Charter, and he would like to summarize what the Commission had done thus far:

1)      Article 2.1, which was the Composition of the County Commission, they had changed from five to seven. 

2)      Article 2.5, which was Salary and Other Compensation, they had changed from $33,500 to $49,500 with some language similar to what was in there for increases. 

      3)      Article 5.2.1, which dealt with Non-Partisan Offices, and the Office of the Supervisor of Elections shall be non-partisan,  and they had added the other four constitutional officers to that.

      4)      Article 5.2.3, which stated a candidate for non-partisan office may qualify for election by showing signatures of qualified electors one and one-half percent of the total number of registered electors, and they changed that to one percent because of Florida Statute 99.095B. 

      5)      Article 8.4, Charter Review, the current language said that the Charter Review Commission shall consist of thirteen persons, and they decided to delete that sentence, “Each Charter Review Commission shall consist of thirteen persons”, because the next sentence took care of it by saying, “The Chair shall appoint three members, and each member of the Board of County Commissioners shall appoint two”, so if there were seven county commissioners the Commission would grow to seventeen members, and if it stayed at five it would remain at thirteen, deleting that sentence handled both conditions. 

     6)      The Efficiency Commission

 The Chairman asked if there were any other changes that had been made? 

Mr. Spitzer said no, he thought that was all of them. 

Mr. Watts said there was one other that might be dependent, and that was in 8.3.1.  He asked if the voters approved an enlargement of the Board of County Commissioners to seven, was it the intent of that Charter Review Commission to continue a supermajority requirement for the proposal of charter amendments by the Board of County Commissioners?

The Chairman asked if there was any way to put that in a formula?

 Mr. Watts answered yes. 

The Chairman asked what he would call it?

Mr. Watts said a majority plus one.

The Chairman said, so that would be another change, and that was 8.3.1.  The Chairman said he thought that was a total of six or seven changes all together.

Commissioner Strang asked if that was the only place where the supermajority of Polk County appeared, which was in 8.3.1?

Mr. Watts said he believed that was correct.

Commissioner Lindsey asked when did the supermajority apply, and what section was he referring to?

Mr. Watts answered 8.3.1 Proposal of Amendments to the Charter by the Board of County Commissioners.  He said they had a finite number of four in there then, and if the Board of County Commissioners was enlarged to seven the equivalent number would be five.  It was a majority plus one, but if they simple stated it as the formula, majority plus one that would apply whether or not the voters enlarged the Commission. 

The Chairman asked who would be drafting that language for the Commission’s consideration on February 12th?

Mr. Watts said he thought that was his responsibility. 

The Chairman said they would take a look at that draft language, and they needed to have a vote on that draft language, so that they could get everything ready for the first public hearing on February 19th. 

Mr. Watts asked the Chairman if they also wanted to look at ballot language at that point, or how to cluster the amendments, or did he want to defer that decision?

The Chairman asked if the Commission had any feeling concerning that?

Commissioner Strang said he thought there was a lot to be said for having each one stand alone rather than lumping them together.

The Chairman said he had referred to that earlier, and those were the choices, they could have them together in clusters, or they could have them separate, and he said his preference was to have them separate as well, and he asked how did the rest of the Commission feel?

Commissioner Lindsey said it appeared that three of the seven issues were simply housekeeping issues.  The number qualifying was a statutory requirement regardless of what they did, and the supermajority issue was a housekeeping issue, and he thought there was one other issue he thought was a housekeeping issue.  He asked if there was any merit to clustering those under housekeeping, and the rest could stand independently, or was it all or none?

Mr. Watts said what they called housekeeping, someone else might disagree with, and that was certainly their privilege. 

Chairman Costello said the other risk was when a voter saw the issues grouped together like that, they might say well, I don’t know, I’m not going to do that, and vote against it, and then the choices would be interesting if they did vote against it.

Commissioner McLaughlin said he would be in favor of what Commissioner Lindsey was saying, because if they basically made it neutral as a housekeeping matter, for instance, if they changed the language that it was majority plus one, but didn’t specific that it was seven, so if that actually failed then there would be no affect on the Charter in terms of how they operated, but he thought they didn’t want to put too many issues on the ballot.  He said if they didn’t lump them all together there might actually be more confusion than if they lumped them together, and say what they were doing in ninety words or less or whatever it was. 

Mr. Spitzer said they could take the technical housekeeping amendments, and attach them to their other policy amendments, and let them stand-alone too. 

The Chairman said he thought that a motion needed to be entertained on that issue to determine whether they wanted each one of the seven items separate or whether they wanted to combine some.  The Chairman asked if anyone wanted to make a motion for either one of those choices?

Commissioner McLaughlin made a motion to combine the housekeeping issues into one ballot amendment, which would spell out each housekeeping issue. 

The Chairman asked what the housekeeping issues were?

Commissioner McLaughlin answered the Section 8.4 change, which was to eliminate that sentence. 

The Chairman asked the deletion of the thirteen-person sentence?

Commissioner McLaughlin answered right, and by deleting it they still weren’t changing it, and Section 8.3.1, changing the words, “Not fewer than four members upon a concurrence of a majority plus one member”.  He said he thought the other one was regarding the procedure for petition. 

Mr. Watts answered 5.2.3. 

The Chairman asked if he was referring to the sentence referring to one and one-half percent to one percent?

Commissioner McLaughlin answered right. 

Chairman Costello asked if those were the three issues he was referring to?

Commissioner McLaughlin answered correct.

The Chairman said that Commissioner McLaughlin made a motion to group those issues on the ballot as one, and Commissioner Lindsey seconded the motion.  The Chairman asked if there was further discussion? There was none. 

The Chairman asked Ms. Swearengin to call the roll for a vote.  The results were 6/4 with the ayes prevailing.  The motion was lost because it didn’t receive a two-thirds vote, which would be seven that evening. 

The Chairman asked that the Commission go back to the other issue, and he asked if there was a motion to make every issue a stand-alone issue?

Commissioner Gernert made a motion to make every issue a stand-alone issue, and Commissioner Moore Bailey seconded the motion.  The Chairman asked if there was further discussion on that issue?

Commissioner Price asked if the Commission would see a written analysis of each of those at the Commission’s next meeting?

Mr. Watts answered yes. 

Commissioner Price asked if the Commission would be presented with options, or would that be it, and then they would have discussions?

Mr. Watts said in the case of language the Commission had not seen in final form, such as the Efficiency Commission, he said he would like to put that together with some options of language, because he didn’t want his language to prevail over the Commission’s intent unintentionally.  He said in most of those cases they had already worked out language. 

Commissioner Price asked, according to Roberts Rules of Order, when the Commission viewed the language the next week, if they felt there were two that really grouped together, could the Commission bring that up again?

Chairman Costello answered the Commission could revisit the issue.

The Chairman asked if there was any further discussion?  There was none. 

The Chairman asked Ms. Swearengin to call the roll for a vote.  The results were 10/0 with the ayes prevailing.  The motion carried unanimously. 

The Chairman said the Commission was then down to Unfinished Business, and he asked if there was any unfinished business to come before them?

Commissioner Gernert said he just wanted to share with the Commission that Mr. Spitzer provided him with the background materials for the Communications Committee, and they would be getting together. 

Commissioner Moore Bailey said she was not there when the minutes were approved, and she said she wanted to add some corrections, and submit them for the record. 

The Chairman told Commissioner Moore Bailey that the minutes were not approved, and that the Commission decided to defer the approval of the minutes until the next Commission meeting because the members hadn’t had a chance to look over them.  He said he knew she had made some suggested changes, and he said he thought one was based upon a comment that Commissioner Lindsey made, and he suggested that she clarify with him what that was.

Commissioner Lindsey said if Commissioner Moore Bailey refreshed his memory they would get it corrected. 

The Chairman asked that Commissioner Moore Bailey and Commissioner Lindsey get together with Ms. Swearengin, and get those corrections straightened out.

Commissioner Moore Bailey said the other comment was with the Chairman, but yes, she could do that. 

The Chairman said fine. 

Commissioner Lindsey asked if there would be a deliberation on the order of those elements on the ballot?

The Chairman said he would defer that question to Mr. Watts.

Mr. Watts said he thought they could propose the order, but he was not sure that the Supervisor didn’t have the ultimate authority as to how to arrange the ballot. 

The Chairman said he thought that was certainly fair for their consideration, and he didn’t know if they needed to do all of that next week because they still had a while before their report would be done. 

The Chairman asked if there was any further Unfinished Business?

The Chairman said the Commission was down to Remarks of Interested Citizens, and Mr. Hancock and Mr. Smith had signed up to speak to the Commission.

The Chairman invited Mr. Hancock to speak to the Commission.

Mr. Russell Hancock, The Monday Night Group